Today’s post is written by regular contributor Benison O’Reilly.
While writing my first novel Happily Ever After? I was fiercely protective of my words, like a kid who cups her hand around her schoolwork so no-one can copy her answers.
For a year my husband watched me toil away at the manuscript, but if he so much as dared peer over my shoulder to read a few lines he would be instantly shooed away.
After a year his patience was rewarded—he was offered the first reading. A rather poisoned chalice when you think about it, as the novel could have been dreadful. Fortunately it wasn’t, and our marriage has survived. I sat in the kitchen like an expectant father, listening for guffaws (the book was intended to humorous) while my husband read in the bedroom. The verdict was a resounding (and honest) thumbs up.
But he was my husband, hardly an objective reviewer. The second person to read it was a tougher test—my (non-fiction) publisher. She loved it so much she decided to publish it. It may have been the easiest path to publication ever. Not necessarily a good thing in retrospect.
Apart from a few friends (beta readers) and the editor, no-one saw the book until the review copies were sent out a month or so before publication day. The reviews in the glossy magazines turned out to be good, but I did receive a less glowing one in a major newspaper, where the reviewer commented the novel had structural problems. While I sulked for days (okay, months!), I eventually realized she had a point.
I vowed I would not make the same mistake again and read every book about structure known to man. (For the record my favorites are Plot & Structure by James Scott Bell and Hooked by Les Edgerton.) Then second novel syndrome struck. I abandoned my first attempt half-way in, as my nonfiction career took over.
Finally, three years after Happily Ever After? was published, I’m about 70 000 words in with my second novel, words I’m reasonably happy with. This time around, however, I’m seeking feedback before completing the book. I’ve joined a writing group.
Are writing groups helpful or a hindrance?
I’ve read many criticisms of writing groups, like here and here and here, especially those compromised of inexperienced writers. In the wrong circumstances they can become de facto self-help groups, offering lots of praise and support but very little constructive criticism. The result: mediocrity. Or, colored by their own beliefs, members waste time opining how your characters should behave, rather than accepting that your characters can behave any way you like, just as long as you’ve created convincing portraits of them.
My group is different. For a start it’s run by my local writers’ center and costs several hundred dollars to attend—enough to deter the dilettantes. Also the group is overseen by a professional editor. To be honest, when I signed up, it was her feedback I was after.
There are five individuals in my group—four women and a man, all writing in different genres. One is a previously published author of children’s historical fiction, another an aspiring erotic fiction author (the lone male). There is also a Chinese-born Australian writing a fictionalized memoir of China’s Cultural Revolution, a young literary short story writer, and me—an author of commercial women’s fiction.
With such disparate interests, I suspect all of us initially wondered how the group would work. Certainly I did.
As it turns out, very well. So much so, I’m as interested in receiving feedback from my group members as I am from the professional editor who’s supervising us all.
I think it’s because we’re all serious about writing and understand the craft, but also—because we’re reading outside our genres—have the ability to be genuinely detached and objective.
Have I enjoyed criticism? Not always, but I’ve learned some really useful stuff, like that sometimes I overdo the humor and that my leading lady has a few character inconsistencies. These are criticisms that a genuine lover of women’s commercial fiction might forgive or gloss over because they’re wrapped up in the story. I think I will eventually end up with a much better book thanks to my writing group.
Of course, not everyone can afford the investment of a paid writing group, but the idea of using as beta readers (experienced) writers outside your genre, may be one worth considering.
After all, it’s got to be better to hear criticism before you submit to publishers or agents—or self-publish—rather than receiving the rejection letters and/or negative reviews afterward.
Are you in a writing group? If so, do you believe it has helped your writing?
My two cents? I think a writing group is fabulous as long as there is a clearly definitely purpose and method of critique. I’ve been part of a writing group with a regular group of writers for the past six years and it’s had it’s ups and downs, but has definitely benefited from those that have worked professionally and who understand how to give a critique that is constructive. As a co-facilator of the group, the leaders made sure that everyone understood what kind of feedback was expected. It also helped to coach writers on receiving feedback – so as not to feel as if they had to defend their work and perhaps miss out on some comment of value. As a professional artist and a journalist, I understand the need to have a certain amount of detachment from the work that I produce – this helps me to work more effectively with editors and clients. A lot of amateurs take any criticism too personally and miss the message of how the listener experienced their work. Feedback can be a lifeline for such a solitary creative venture and I find these issues very important to address. A group needs to be safe, respectful, helpful, and even a little challenging. Thanks for the opp to share. Great post!
Thanks Carolyn. Fortunately after three published books and several articles I’ve just about lost my defensiveness when it comes to receiving critiques – fortunately, as my writing group have come up with some very valid criticisms. The best thing is they’ve also thought of some very elegant solutions to the problems they’ve highlighted!
Before I found my local writers’ group, I joined two online critique groups. One was a feel good group in which everyone said, ‘It’s great, do more,” etc. The other group was much better in that they offered real critiques with helpful comments and suggestions, and sometimes ‘why are you here, you won’t ever write anything worthwhile’ kinds of comments. But I persevered. Then I found a local writers’ group in which some of the members are brutal, published writers, but they know what they are talking about. I have taken what I consider the best of the two real critique groups and I can tell my writing has gotten much better because of it.
I have dropped the ‘feel good’ online group, stayed with the online critique group and the local group and my writing has improved. I have a collection of short stories which I will put on Kindle within the month and the first of a series of novels a couple of months after that.
Hi! I’ve never been successful with writing groups. Most of the ones that I have attended are those that are in love with the idea of writing. They feel free to comment on your work like “it’s good” or “I didn’t like it”, but never have any real knowledge of the craft to support what they’re saying. Then there are those that claim to know everything about writing. For years, they have read about writing, investigated the best writing software and insist that their writing is God’s gift to the world. They don’t want any constructive feedback and are offended when you give it to them. Then, for daring to do so, they turn around and slam your work for no legitimate reason. Have they been published? No. So far I’ve only experienced dreamers and egomaniacs. I’m not saying that I’m some great writer, but I’m serious about my craft and have yet to find the perfect fit.
I love my writing group (class actually). It might be a feelgood one but as a housewife and mother of three it is lovely to listen – to share thoughts and feelings and risk mortification (or glory) by reading my pieces now and then. Sometimes I write something that feels just right and other times I (and others) know I could stretch myself more to improve my structure and plotting. Now and then I am ‘critiqued’ , never brutally. Ultimately I need to follow my own guide. And really it is ‘only’ writing.
However , the thing I love most about the group is the coffee break . I love the banter and the fact that I am spending time with people who want to take pride in thinking and who want to hear other people thinking aloud. And if i write a good piece at the end of that, well that would be great too. .
I think a good writing group is the best way for a new writer to learn the basics. But the toughest part of the learning curve isn’t the craft of writing, it’s learning to pinpoint your critiquers agendas. Almost everybody has one. And mostly the critique will be about the critiquer, not your work. So what the writer has to do is learn that Mr. X will always ask for more action in a scene (because he likes action adventure) and Mrs. Y will always object to bad language or what she considered “immoral behavior”, and Miss Z will complain there aren’t enough people of her ethnicity/religion in the story, etc. You can’t please them all–and you shouldn’t try. The writer’s job is to sift through and pay attention to her own little “ah-ha” moments when the critique resonates. The rest needs to be ignored.
I have been in a Writer’s group for over three years. In the course of this time, I’ve found that it has made me more aware of inconsistencies in my writing and how to present my main character in a humane way. There have been times when the honesty was overwhelming and I felt like I was a failure. Yet, each time I heard something that would improve my writing, so I have stuck with the group. We have become good friends and that has helped. I may not have a published work but I have started to learn how to write with more understanding and a desire to keep my characters honest and likeable.
In my years teaching fiction, memoir and creative nonfiction, I’ve run several writing groups, mostly formed out of groups of my students who wanted a way to continue working together after our class was over. My take? Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. And groups are not for every writer. It’s true, having readers can help with solving problems –and the best way that works is for somebody you trust to tell you they’re confused. But that leads to suggestions on how to fix it and I’ve seen writers twist their work into pretzels trying to incorporate suggestions that really weren’t right –just because they didn’t trust themselves or their voice. Groups with a mix of seasoned writers and newbies can also be either great or terrible. Each writer has to carefully consider what they want from the group — support? critiques? publishing help? — and not stick with a group that just isn’t going to provide that. It’s important to build confidence in your own intuition about your work.
As the top writer for my school’s small newspaper, I write everything from columns to news reports to movie reviews, and have had two articles published in my town’s newspaper. I’m also currently working on a novel titled “Come Back, Blue Jay.” I’m a part of a small writing group at my local library, full of amateur writers and one professional who oversees it all. In order to make sure meetings are actually helpful, we REQUIRE negative comments. If you’re giving feedback, you can’t just say it was good; instead, you have to let the writer how you think they could make it better. I always leave our meetings with a better piece of work in my hand, and I think if every struggling writer had access to such useful support and feedback, we’d see a lot more of them achieving publication.
I started a writing group here in Singapore. We have 350 members but generally about 30 turn up on a regular monthly basis. I’ve found it a massive source of support and goodwill for projects. Writing is such a lonely business that feeling some love occasionally from the outside world can only be a good thing!
Comments received are, on the whole, helpful and constructive. It’s a social thing really, rather than a master class on writing. But I find it helps to get feedback, even at an early stage, and also to read your work aloud is a useful tool.
I love the idea of a writing group facilitated by an editor! Does anybody know if something like this also exists online?
Thanks a lot in advance!
I have personally always wanted to be part of a writing group. But I am so terrified of people reading my work before I edit the crap out of it. I’m such a perfectioniat. But I think it would help me more to have other people besides my mom (who is also a writer) cheer me on and help me along the way.
I’ve been in a number of critique groups over the past 30 years. I think one of the best things about them is continued enthuasium about writing. You have to send a piece and show up twice a month. Plus the commitment to each other. The worst thing is newbies who are too lazy to learn craft on their own and expect the rest of us to teach them. Yes we teach each other but make an effort to learn all you can on your own time as well.